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Mar. 1st, 2011 | 11:41 am

A break from work.

I really dislike people saying Joss Whedon is a feminist.

I'm sure the guy is really nice and smart (hell, his interviews makes him sounds nicer and more self-aware than about 95% of the sci-fi/fantasy genera creators). But I don't see how he is a feminist. Sure, he created a show where the main lead was female and the show became a cultural phenomenon, but this does not make him a feminist. It makes him into an creator with a interesting premise and memorable characters.

I don't have anything against him personally, it just makes me bemused as to why people would think of him as a feminist.

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Comments {7}

Lipstick Librarian

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from: morebliss
date: Mar. 1st, 2011 03:56 am (UTC)
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He calls himself a feminist. Whether or not he's a good one is something that I am sure will continue to be debated in fandom.

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witty, somehow

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from: naanima
date: Mar. 1st, 2011 05:05 am (UTC)
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That is really interesting. The fact that he identifies himself as one. See, I can accept this much more than people dubbing him a feminist because of Buffy. As you said whether he is one or not is up to fandom debate.

I will need to think on this a bit more. Personal perception vs other people's perception.

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Lipstick Librarian

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from: morebliss
date: Mar. 1st, 2011 09:52 am (UTC)
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He was raised by a feminist mother, and I have always liked that he called himself a feminist. He is not perfect with it, but I am not a perfect feminist either.

This article is interesting, especially as he is 'doing' Wonder Woman now.

And this comic totally describes a lot of people's feelings about Whedon. I really love him, but I know some people don't? Or are conflicted?

I love Buffy and Angel, (you know, give or take a few episodes), I disliked 'Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog' after the third 'webisode', and I LOVE Firefly and Serenity. I haven't watched Dollhouse yet, but only 'cause I haven't.

I think he does well. I like that he is an author in Hollywood who at least THINKS about females as original characters.

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witty, somehow

(no subject)

from: naanima
date: Mar. 1st, 2011 11:03 am (UTC)
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He is not perfect with it, but I am not a perfect feminist either.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I like his intellect and his ability to create really interesting characters and scenarios. I think he is great at creating beginnings of a story but find that he seem to lose his way when his creations goes on for too long. I loved Buffy but then it lost me around season 4 and I could never recapture my love for it. My love for Angel solidified after his departure, though I LOVED season 5 of Angel, and really liked what he did with Spike.

I tend to really dislike his works in pre-existing comics series. I think this more to do with him wanting to interpret it to his own sensibilities, and it just doesn't work. Probably why I tend to like his original works much more.

And like you I really didn't like Dr Horrible. Dollhouse... Um, yeah. I have some major issues with it, and I admit confuse the hell out of me from a completely cinematography pov. I understood what he was trying to say but, to me, it really missed the mark.

And agreed in regards to Whedon at least thinking about these issues.

BTW - I just wanted to say that items really nice to be able to have a conversation like this without it devolving into mud slinging. I love these discussions when people are being open and you know, really interested in other people's pov.

Edited at 2011-03-01 11:04 am (UTC)

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(no subject)

from: new_kate
date: Mar. 1st, 2011 02:22 pm (UTC)
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I believe he also majored or minored in Women's Studies or some such? At the time the show was a bit groundbreaking, and the concept was intentionally feminist. He used to say in the interviews that he wanted to take the iconic horror movie image of a petite blond chased by a monster and make the monster be afraid of her instead. And also that he wanted to create a generation of teenage boys who'd think that nothing is hotter than a girl who's in charge, but I don't know if he'd succeeded there :P

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witty, somehow

(no subject)

from: naanima
date: Mar. 2nd, 2011 02:13 am (UTC)
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I never got the ground breaking aspect of it, but I suspect that's more to do with being introduced to Susan Ripley and Sarah Connor at the age of 4 (or potentially younger). And I'll stand by my 100% belief that Terminator and Aliens used similar tropes as the horror genera only dressed as sci-fi. So, for me, I never really thought that girls kicking ass as something new. I liked Buffy because it was funny and had characters that I could relate to - Xander and Willow, but I never felt like it was a feminist statement. It might also be due to the fact that I couldn't really connect with Buffy, sure, she was a girl, but she wasn't the girl that I understood. And then Farscape entered my life, and well, Aeryn Sun is pretty much my love.

So well I can see how the progression of logic is made and even why Buffy is taken as a feminist statement I just don't find it to be ground breaking from a personal level. I respect what he did, or what he tried to do, but it just didn't click with me. Give me a girl without the powers of a Slayer fighting evil than maybe it could have worked for me. The thing with horror as a genera is that people tend to forget that while the girl gets chased down by something horrible, she also inevitably survive and somehow contribute to the end of the horror. This isn't always the case, and I'll be the first one one to admit that some of horror-porn stuff that has been produced in the past decade of two has been really bad.

Like I said, I can admire the guy for trying, but I just don't find the personal connection, and while I think it is great he identifies himself as a feminist, something I have extreme respect for, I, well, I have trouble connecting with most of his works.

... Except for thet first 3 seasons of Buffy and Angel. But you know, the latter I only really got into when he departed the show to focus on Firefly (another show that I watched, liked the concept, but couldn't engage me. It is like, ohhh, potential, but otherwise, not much else). My feelings for Dollhouse and Dr. Horrible. Um, yeah. If I start I will not be able to stop with the feelings.

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witty, somehow

2nd Part

from: naanima
date: Mar. 1st, 2011 11:10 am (UTC)
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I'm writing this via iPhone, and have not figured out how to do certain things yet. So um, ignore spelling mistakes and yes part 2.

Read the article, and you know, all good fiction writes people. Have you seen The Sarah Connor Chronicles? It is pretty much how I judge all genera shows by. All characters are people no matter their gender, race or age. It was awesome and then they cancelled it. Gods, it was absolutely amazing.

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